Tags: at, Ball, biased, blizzard, camp, Cannon, celebrity, cleanup, clear, clothing, coming, county, cover-up, donated, donations, dumping, environment, evidence, explanation, fake, floods, food, force, frame, garbage, impact, in, inside, know, leave, left, mainstream, management, media, Morton, news, NODAPL, now, Oceti, of, process, protestors, Puente, real, remove, River, rock, setup, Sherrif, shows, side, slow, source, Standing, story, to, trash, true, truth, video, waste, Weather, weeks, You
Mainstream Media’s Version
Sanitation crews work to remove massive amounts of garbage from DAPL protest camp before spring thaw
By Sara Berlinger |
Posted: Mon 5:36 PM, Feb 06, 2017 |
Updated: Mon 6:53 PM, Feb 06, 2017 kfyrtv.com
Sanitation crews work to remove massive amounts of garbage from DAPL protest camp before spring thaw
Standing Rock Activists Clear Trash as Tribes Ask Court to Halt Pipeline By Bethania Palma snopes.com
Demonstrators in North Dakota are still on the ground and cleaning up trash left after a blizzard evacuation, and bracing as a new deadline approaches.
“..In early February 2017, news outlets began to report on large quantities of trash left behind at protest camps by demonstrators at Standing Rock — although hundreds of people have remained in the unforgiving North Dakota winter in a nearly year-long standoff over a multi-billion dollar oil pipeline. Organizers told us much of the debris was left behind due to a forced evacuation of the protest camps amid a series of severe December 2016 blizzards, and subsequent sub-zero temperatures froze it to the ground, hindering cleanup.
The Standing Rock Sioux and environmental activists have bitterly opposed the $3.8 billion Energy Transfer Partners pipeline under the Missouri River, fearing a pipeline leak would destroy the tribe’s only source of drinking water and contaminate the supply for millions of people who live downstream from the pipe crossing. The Sioux have also tried to preserve cultural and religious landmarks spread throughout the area, some of which they say have already been destroyed by pipeline construction. Thousands of people have cycled through the encampments since the protest was launched on 1 April 2016, including non-Native activists who oppose fossil fuels as an energy source because it contributes to climate change.
Joye Braun, a front line community organizer with Indigenous Environmental Network and member of the Cheyenne River Sioux tribe, told us that demonstrators have been working in freezing temperatures to clean after two blizzards bore down on North Dakota. Just as thousands had arrived at protest encampments, many were forced to evacuate. The first storm struck on 5 December 2016 and the second came several days later. Since then, freezing temperatures have been an obstacle for cleaning efforts:
We had about 17,000 people here and then there was that big blizzard, then three or four days later, another big blizzard. So we had about 300 or 400 people left cleaning up stuff, some of which has been frozen to the ground… Everybody at camp is working so hard.
Michael A. Wood, Jr., a Marine Corps veteran who founded Veterans Stand for Standing Rock (the organization’s name has since shortened to Veterans Stand), told us 100 to 200 veterans are en route to the site to help with clean-up efforts. Braun said the veterans will be housed on reservation land. Several camps, including the largest, Oceti Sakowin, remain standing with a total of about 800 demonstrators, despite extreme weather. While one media report quoted a police officer saying, “As bad as it sounds, we’re looking for people that may have died and could be wrapped up in a canvas or a tarp or tent,” Wood and Braun both said they know of no fatalities…”
Video Shows Morton County Re-Dumping Trash Inside Standing Rock Camp
Published on February 8, 2017 in Environmental/Freshest News by Claire Bernish thedailyhaze.com
Water protectors stand accused of leaving behind mountains of trash
Mainstream media jumped to believe misinformation over fact.
Morton County was captured on video moving trash, rather than transporting it to the dump.
The operation appears to be staged to make water protectors look careless.
“Much talk has circulated over the last two weeks about appalling quantities of trash left behind by water protectors in the Dakota Access Pipeline opposition camps at Standing Rock — but those rumors were created through mainstream media’s hyperbole and sensationalism — without much basis in reality.
Now, there is proof corporate media failed by reporting on a nonexistent problem — going so far as to say cleanup crews were on the lookout for ‘dead bodies’ — with the release of a video showing city crews dumping heaps of garbage in one area for no apparent reason.
An extra-capacity garbage truck and other city vehicles can be seen dumping full loads of trash in a pile among scattered contractors’ dumpsters, in video posted to Facebook by Jesse Puente from inside one of the Standing Rock Camps.
Puente narrates that a man — whom he describes as employed by Morton County — can be seen standing near the quickly amassing pile of waste, taking pictures of the progress and attempting to persuade a few of the crew to pose in lawn chairs in front of it.
And as Puente notes, there would be no logical reason for crews to fully load a vehicle with trash in one location and dump it en masse in another — if clearing garbage were the goal, the loaded truck would take it to the dump.
Also, he explains, the massive heap of garbage only recently began — and it isn’t entirely certain the untold volume of trash came from inside the camps.
Despite media rumors scores of water protectors evacuated camps, abandoning refuse and supplies without regard for the environment, several inside the camps told The Daily Haze a massive, group-organized cleanup effort has been underway in Standing Rock for some time.
“I’m kind of amazed at what I’m seeing,” he tells viewers.
Headlines blaming water protectors for leaving an ecological disaster worse than the pipeline they’re opposing could putatively cause, have largely been driven by the ever-perturbed Morton County Sheriff’s Department — which is hell bent on shining the murkiest possible light on Standing Rock camps.
As Puente explains, the sheriff’s department recently launched a self-aggrandizing PR campaign showing personnel taking charge of camp cleanup.
Yet, instead of taking mounds of garbage to the nearby dump, officials busy themselves playing musical Hefty bags.
What the media reports on Morton County makes it appear as though law enforcement are the ‘good guys,’ but, Puente notes, “They’re lyin’ to you.”
He adds, authorities are only trying to make water protectors appear “trashy” and unable to clean up after themselves. Puente even filmed camp-organized work crews hurrying to clean the area, “everybody’s trying to clean but, these guys,” he says, motioning to the suspicious garbage operation, “these guys are bringing their dump and dumping it right here.”
Video Shows Morton County Dumping Trash Inside Standing Rock Camp To Frame Protesters
“Published on Feb 10, 2017
Puente suggests the only possible explanation for such an operation is to stage the scene to make water protectors and environmentalists look terrible to the public — thus subtly undermining some of the earned legitimacy of the movement against fossil fuels.
Of course, mainstream and pseudo-mainstream media pounced on the chance to fall in line with the comfortable government narrative — let the facts be damned.
While Puente’s video doesn’t evince die-hard proof the Morton County Sheriff’s Department had malintent in its creative refuse collection exercise, the lack of evidence showing otherwise — backed up by accounts from camp cleaning crews and independent media on the ground — certainly raise a number of questions.”
“Ronald H. · Rancher at Self-Employed
You are not doing your job as journalists! Those trucks are hired by the Tribe to clean up the camp. The trucks get loads from different areas of the camp and dump in a central point in the camp. Then they have have a different set of trucks to haul to the dumps in Walworth county dump in South Dakota, not to the Morton County dump. These are not Morton County trucks! Get your facts straight, don’t just assume!..”
“..”I worked on clean up at #NoDAPL camp this last weekend. It is obvious that the 3 back to back storms, SRST advising people to leave, and the frequent assaults by police in the midst of extreme cold weather all had the unexpected effect of burying many people’s camps who likely planned to return, yet did not given the circumstances. Props to those helping with clean up. Many items that are usable have been donated to local places that could use them. Many items recycled. Yes if there was time and place to clean and dry out other items, much more could be recycled – yet those resources and human power are not locally available. People have been working to clean up and move to higher ground while facing externally placed deadlines. Of course the local racist biased media use this as opportunity to talk smack once again. (Including looking for “bodies” lmao) Some empty tents and cardboard can be recycled, etc… benzene, oil, and other chemicals in the water cannot be removed. So… when it comes to trash and waste, I will take some jacked up tarps any day, over 50 – 100 years of contaminated water from oil pipeline spills and frack waste contamination. It’s too bad that Morton County doesn’t look in their own trash – maybe they would find their integrity, honesty, and humanity buried in there somewhere. They likely burned them while they were busy taking selfies with half naked freezing water protectors in cages in the background ala Guantanamo Bay and Auschwitz.” – a #waterprotector..”–Standing Rock Dakota Access Pipeline Opposition facebook.com
February 7 at 12:29am ·
Video Shows Morton County Dumping Trash Inside Standing Rock Camp To Frame Protesters February 9, 2017 Admin Uncategorized 0alternativemediasyndicate.com
“..Now, there is proof corporate media failed by reporting on a nonexistent problem — going so far as to say cleanup crews were on the lookout for ‘dead bodies’ — with the release of a video showing city crews dumping heaps of garbage in one area for no apparent reason.
An extra-capacity garbage truck and other city vehicles can be seen dumping full loads of trash in a pile among scattered contractors’ dumpsters, in video posted to Facebook by Jesse Puente from inside one of the Standing Rock Camps…”
#NoDAPL Archive – Standing Rock Water Protectors nodaplarchive.com
About that garbage:
2/2/17 photo and article – KFYR TV
February 2 at 7:02pm ·
Picking up and uncovering waste and belongings is what many people are doing at the Oceti Sakowin Camp where #DakotaAccessPipeline protesters were camped out for months.
Some are disappointed by how much was left behind.http://bit.ly/2jD05fI..”
Cleanup continues at the Oceti Sakowin protest camp
By Sara Berlinger | Posted: Thu 4:10 PM, Feb 02, 2017 | Updated: Thu 5:55 PM, Feb 02, 2017 kfyrtv.com
“..About 100 people have helped in clearing the camp. Besides the amount of trash and belongings, other challenges make it more difficult.
Having to chip away at snow and ice to remove trash is slowing the cleanup process; some say it will take weeks for the camp to be cleared.
But there is a bright side to what’s left behind.
“It’s like a shelving for pantry for people that come down from churches and other communities around here to pick up, and, you know, can be useful too,” says Patrick Mantich, Nebraska.
Blankets and tents are among the goods being saved by those cleaning up for reuse at other protest camps.
The effort is a coordination between the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, leaders of the camps and Nick Tilsen from Thunder Valley Community Development Corporation…”
The media spin on the garbage:
2/7/17 NoDAPL environmentalists left behind hundred of truckloads of garbage – Sayanythingblog
2/9/17 Environmental protesters at DAPL left behind 25- truckloads of trash – Independent Sentinel
2/8/17 Linda Black Elk’s Clarification:
“… Let’s also not forget the fact that THOUSANDS of people left their tents and belongings with every intention of returning…until they were asked to not return (a lot of folks took that to heart and didn’t even come collect their stuff). I think a lot of these folks “donated” their items to people who were still at camp, but a lot of it just froze under the snow.
We also had some dumb people with no ears who didn’t believe us when we told them about the weather, so after the first blizzard, they were like “screw this!” and headed out, leaving all their frozen, buried crap behind. In their defense, a lot of them left on busses and in packed cars and didn’t have room for their stuff. ..”
2/14/17 Update by kfyr tv – shows melted areas but not anyone working… but, people are working on other areas… – KFYR tv
February 13 at 11:08pm ·
An update from the Oceti Sakowin protest camp where warm temperatures have caused serious flooding in some areas but clean up efforts continue..”
2/14/17 Ecological disaster looms at Dakota Access protest site – Water Contamination Threat Rises At DA Protest Site – Forbes
2/14/17 (Slightly less sentationalist) – State officials warn of river contamination – Bismarck Tribune
2/15/17 Another voice of reason, good read – Redhawk, SRR
Watch How trash was dealt with in December (one very unique method of moving it through camp…) –
12/23/16 – Trash Canoe and one crazy marine – Julie Kurylowicz 2:47 #######
2/18/17 about those 200-300 abandoned cars… NOT! – “I don’t know what the Governor’s been smoking…” – Mike Fasig 4:40
2/18/17 Interview with Bismarck resident, clarifying NOT “Trashpocolypse – Ed Higgens 5:32
Jordan Reports From Standing Rock Clean Up
“Published on Jan 31, 2017
#NoDAPL Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list…
TYT Politics Reporter Jordan Chariton reported from the Oceti Sakowin camp on January 30th, 2017 as bulldozers began the process of cleaning up the camp before Standing Rock Sioux Tribe’s deadline for water protectors to leave the camp.
Any feedback, thoughts, etc..?
Tags: accounts, after, and, archaeology, assault, bible, Biblical, Brock, cases, Christ, court, dad, died, disciples, evidence, fair, four, Gospel, Gospels, Herod, injustice, Jesus, judge, judicial, jurisdiction, justice, land, law, lenient, neutral, of, or, our, perspective, perspectives, Pilate, rape, resurrection, Roman, samples, sexual, Stanford, supreme, swimmer, system, the, trial, Turner, unfair, University, when
10 of the Worst Wrongful Imprisonment Cases 11/9/2013 by MikeP Strange Stories oddee.com
Man spends three months in jail after cops mistook his vitamins for drugs
-Juvenile Wrong Convictions
Detroit Man Wrongly Convicted of Murders When He Was 15 Freed After Serving 9 Years
CATHERINE THORBECKE,ABC News 1 hour 49 minutes ago (Wednesday, June 8th 2016) yahoo.com
” The murder convictions for Davontae Sanford, now 23, have been vacated by Judge Brian Sullivan, and all charges dropped against him, Maria Miller, an assistant prosecuting attorney at the Wayne County Prosecutor’s Office, told ABC News today.
Sanford was serving a 37-to-90-year sentence for a quadruple homicide he was convicted of in 2008, his attorneys said. Sanford was 14 years old when he pleaded guilty to four counts of second-degree homicide at the advice of a now-suspended attorney.
Heidi A. Naasko, a pro bono attorney for Sanford, told ABC News today that a hit man, Vincent Smothers, confessed to 12 murders two weeks after Sanford was sentenced in 2008. ..
Sunday 5 June 2016 23.19 EDT theguardian.com
“…The father of a former Stanford University athlete convicted on multiple charges of sexual assault has said his son should not have to go to prison for “20 minutes of action”.
Brock Turner, a former swimmer at Stanford University, was on Thursday sentenced to six months’ imprisonment and probation for sexually assaulting an unconscious woman.
The 20-year-old from Dayton, Ohio – who was convicted of three felonies, including assault with intent to rape – faced a maximum of 14 years in prison.
But Turner was expected to spend only three months of a six-month sentence in county jail after the judge, Aaron Persky, said positive character references and lack of a criminal record had persuaded him to be more lenient. Prison would have a “severe impact on him”, the judge said…”
Jesus before Pilate.wmv
“Short clip from the Gospel of John.”
Jesus’ trial had nothing to do with justice. The only witnesses were his enemies who wanted him killed. The judge was only interested in avoiding problems with the local leaders and even he was uncomfortable with killing this man.
Jesus did not die for anything he had done wrong. It was our guilt and shame he was carrying.
Father, thank you that Jesus took my guilt and shame – and stood in my place so that I could be free.
On the Trial of Jesus, tektonics.org
“..a) Jesus Himself filled the disciples in after the Resurrection.
We consider this to be the most likely answer. Jesus was with the disciples for 40 days after the Resurrection – plenty of time to relate the sundry details of what happened once the more theological stuff was out of the way. And certainly, Peter would want to know what his Lord had been put through as he was waiting anxiously in the courtyard…”
12 Reasons Jesus’ Trial Was Illegal Part 1 rcg.org
Jesus Before Pilate – A Fabricated Trial? , from youtube.com
Scholar Sees 4 Views of Jesus in Accounts of Death
By PETER STEINFELS
Published: March 27, 1994 nytimes.com
“..He goes on to discuss how the Gospels’ portrayals of the role of Jewish authorities in Jesus’ trials were colored by later conflicts between Christians and Jews, with lethal consequences for the Jews. Similar Look at Nativity..”
Experts’ Evidence for Jesus’ Trial, from youtube.com
“Uploaded on Mar 31, 2011
Dr Dirk Jongkind, a Research Fellow at Tyndale House, pieces together the earliest manuscript evidence for the New Testament and shows how it tells the story of Jesus’ trial before Pilate. Find out more at our website: http://tyndalehouse.com”
Site of Jesus’ Trial FOUND! from youtube.com
“Published on Jan 5, 2015
Archaeologists in Jerusalem say they may have uncovered the remains of Herod the Great’s palace, the site where the trial of Jesus Christ may have taken place prior to his crucifixion. “
Texas Judge resigns after being caught texting instructions to prosecutors to help win convictions In Crime by Poor Richard/October 25, 2013/54 Comments/ poorrichardsnews.com
“Texas district Judge Elizabeth E. Coker is stepping down from the bench after being caught engaging in a massive perversion of justice. A whistleblower revealed that Corker was sending text messages to prosecutors with suggestions on questions to ask in court in order to secure a conviction.
from Houston Chronicle:
Her resignation also opens the door for a flurry of re-trials for anybody convicted in her court sessions. By trying to illegally secure convictions, Coker opened Pandora’s box, and now the state of Texas will have some massive legal knots to untangle…”
“On The 700 Club Wednesday, Feb 17.: An estimated 20-thousand innocent people sit in American prisons because of wrongful convictions. Marvin Anderson was one of those people. He was sentenced to 210 years for a rape that he didn’t commit. Find out how he was finally set free….” http://go.cbn.com/6591
Any other samples of legal cases out there that was “fair”, “unfair”, or “both”? Thoughts, comments, stories, feedback, etc.. on any of the content mentioned or not mentioned above?…
Tags: Answers, Ben Stein, bible, Creation, Darwin, Darwinism, debate, evidence, Evolution, Expelled, Genesis, Hitler, in, movie, Nazi, racism, Science, theory, truth
I majored in the Liberal Arts for the Human Services, so I’m not very informative of the Sciences. However, I can just say this whole “debate” on Creation and Evolution is just a bunch of “misunderstanding” of one another on various “issues” within this topic. I’ll just share my own perspective that I feel this Evolution theory of “survival of the fittest” bring on prejudice, like racism-see personal story, classism, etc…
Answering Racism With The Bible
Facebook Wall Posts on Wednesday, February 23rd 2011
Expelled Movie Trailer – Today’s Christian Videos
Grant B this is a great movie. We have shown it on campus a few times as well.
Remi P. wrote Wed, February 23, 2011 8:58:33 AM on your link: “This is the worst “documentary” I have ever seen. They used extremists for the anti-religion people (such as the prof from UMM who is a total douche). Also, most of the points are not proven. He says everything is against us, Darwinists are everywhere and he never proves it and says stuff that’s it. He only creates a climate of fear. He also makes really horrible shortcuts between Darwinists and nazis; those two concepts have nothing to do with each others. The Nazis were supported in part by creationists (i.e. Catholics) but he does not talk about that. This is only a propaganda documentary to feed in more Fox News ideas. I really hope someone will, one day, make a documentary on the same topic as Expelled, but without trying to pull people apart but rather describing in an objective way the situation as well as solutions to those problems.”
Yes, he was not only supported by the Catholic Pope (not all of his followers of Catholicism-as my parents were so at the time in the Philippines during WWII; This is just one example how we got to be careful to not categorize groups of people. Just as NOT all Germans were behind Hitler. Ever seen the movie “Valkyrie -2008?-), but by many other groups (e.g. American scientists, some Arab Muslim nation heads, etc..). The swatzika symbol might’ve came out of Hinduism.
Remi P Wed, February 23, 2011 9:06:29 AM wrote: “I have seen another film that is pretty much as bad as this one which is Religulous. It is pretty much saying that religion is ridiculous with the same methods as Expelled. It is terrible. There is no objectivity or middle ground in the American society nowadays.”
Grant: I was sharing this to help promote the up-coming guest speaker coming this Sunday-Monday…http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/bio.aspx?Speaker_ID=20
Remi: I’ve done a lot of research on this topic that’s linked below that video an…d still learning. We all don’t know the answers, but as long as we RESPECT one another’s opionions (based on each indviduals experience and background, which we are all created unique and different) . Seek and you’ll find!!
Remi: Yeah…lol!! I actually have seen that film by Bill Mahr, which a friend of mine didn’t enjoy watching it with me too. i actually liked it as I watched it with an open-mind “trying” to understand a guy (raised with parents having 2 different religions) “trying” to search for “answers”. He (like anyone doing one’s own film) was very biased, but show’s again how we all come from different experiences and backgrounds.
Khayam R. commented on your link Wed, February 23, 2011 11:04:42 AM wrote: “sal, this is a really awful movie. ben stein just attacks the theories behind evolution while never showing us the evidence behind creative design besides the testimony of scientists who aren’t very well respected in their fields. in addition, claiming that galileo’s times were easier for free thinkers is anything but the truth. galileo was charged with heresy and imprisoned for preaching a heliocentric solar system. he was eventually forced to recant what he found from his research. none of the scientists in the movie that proposed intelligent design were subject to that sort of persecution; they were simply frowned upon by their colleagues.”
Ben was just focusing on how the education system in America is just one-sided (e.g. not open to Creation) and he doesn’t have any “professional” background on the subject on hand. He is Jewish and was just defending his faith’s beliefs on “Creation” against attacks of secular schools. Here is a blog I found “somewhat” relating to what you just shared about=> More on Ben Stein and Expelled jgkeegan.wordpress.com
Andrew H commented on your link. Wed, February 23, 2011 11:10:22 AM: Hi Sal, “is evidence the only path to truth?”
Define truth? A “good of friend” of mine said this..”What’s 1 + 1?”..2, right? How do we know this? Is it “obvious”? It may be for some people, but not for others. Sorry, it’s 11:30pm right now as I’m responding to this, my brain is kind of “slow” now. I’ll get back to your on this “deep question”!! I can only think of this response if you are referring to this Truth…
Can you see the wind?
“I’ve seen the effects of the wind, but I’ve never seen the wind. There’s a mystery to it.” -Billy Graham (see faith)
Khayam R Wed, February 23, 2011 11:11:50 AM wrote: “andrew, typically, yes.”
Andrew H Wed, February 23, 2011 11:14:23 AM commented on your link wrote: “but that assertion is true without evidence. Is there a problem with using evidence for evidence’s truth? Sometimes, for the case of accepting evidence as a means to truth, we have to accept things on faith without evidence. Like accepting evidence on faith.”
Exactly..faith! I didn’t believe there is “a” Creator because of “material” evidence, I believed through my Catholic faith growing-up as a kid.
Khayam R Wed, February 23, 2011 11:17:49 AM wrote: “andrew, faith is enough to form a hypothesis, but you need evidence to prove the hypothesis.”
Andrew H Wed, February 23, 2011 11:21:02 AM commented on your link.: wrote: “won’t the evidence be the same for confirming and disconfirming Christian theories?”
Sal [Thu, Feb. 24th 11′]: Again, I’m not a “science-guy”, but faith isn’t proven through theories or evidence. As a popular saying from the Bible..
“Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see.”-Hebrews 11
I got into my “faith” through a personal encounter in need of a Savior during a “difficult-time” growing-up (during my early college years-see story). Each individual encounters their faith differently. Just like how people need to lose weight by trying out a “new” diet program and results vary with each individual. Well, my faith has been “proven” (sometimes I have my ups and downs each day) through answered prayers, knowing what I’m grateful/thankful each day (I’m reminded of this almost at my workplace working with mentally-physically challenged adults (Andrew, I’m sure you can relate as you worked at the same group home) ! However, if you really want to get “scientific”, check out Biblical Archaeology!
Khayam R Wed, February 23, 2011 11:21:34 AM wrote: “andrew, i’m not sure what you mean by that. could you provide an example???”
Andrew H commented on your link. Wed, February 23, 2011 11:24:55 AM wrote: “I can’t think of any”
Andrew H commented on your link. Wed, February 23, 2011 11:26:50 AM wrote: “I’d probably have to stipulate at this point, the point made about proof. We can question what that means. What do we speak of when we mean proof?”
Khayam R Wed, February 23, 2011 11:32:22 AM commented on your link. wrote: “it’s okay andrew, let’s not evaluate a religious theory anyways. it’s bound to offend someone. i don’t think people are wrong for having faith; i just think you should have more than just your faith before you declare something to be the truth. keep in mind that we have countless religions in the world who are 100% certain that they know the truth, yet they all disagree on the ultimate path to salvation. this tells me that most of them are wrong.”
Sal: After I came into my Christian faith my first year in college, I still had lots of questions (e.g. where races came from, all religions lead to one God?, etc..). I still do and I share my current “seeking” (research) via my websites (e.g. GoodnewsEverybody.com-Religious, World Religions, etc... My personal challenge is to call on God and ask ..” are You real?…why?..”
Andrew H commented on your link. Wed, February 23, 2011 11:39:35 AM wrote: “I think there has been a tremendous push from the enlightenment to seek evidence, which some things cannot be proven by evidence but we accept them on faith anyhow, as I’ve mentioned about accepting evidence as a good means of acquiring truth. Ultimately, I dont’ think finding proof through evidence leaves us with uncontroversiality. Maybe, our understanding of truth is very off base also… I’m no means a nihilist about truth, but I love thinking about it.”
Sal: It’s in our human nature to “seek truth” as curious human beings…“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.”–Matthew 7:7. There is a story in the Torah or “Old Testament” (Bible) during the beginning of Creation
Khayam R commented on your link. Wed, February 23, 2011 11:39:46 AM wrote: “andrew, since both creative design and evolution are supposed to be scientific, i would like to judge both theories based on the scientific method: 1. propose a question, 2. do some research, 3. form a hypothesis, 4. test the hypothesis, 5. determine if the hypothesis is true of false from the results of your experiment, 6. report your results if the hypothesis is true or start over from step 3 if the hypothesis is false.”
Khayam R commented on your link Wed, February 23, 2011 11:41:09 AM wrote: “andrew, i don’t you could base everything on evidence. sometimes faith and intuition help, but the majority of your findings should be based on objective evidence. otherwise, how do you stay grounded on what’s factual and what you believe???”
Andrew H commented on your link. Wed, February 23, 2011 11:43:03 AM wrote: “maybe I’m willing to give up that tie between fact and belief or at least value it less. Maybe this is attributed to my skepticism about objective reality…lol”
Sal [Sunday, February 27th 2011] : Again, I’m not into scientific reasoning. I was trying to find a video that speaks the “scientific language” and found this one (??? shrugging my shoulder with uncertainty)…
PROOF of CREATION
What do you think? A friend of mine told me God is not in the same “time” as we are currently presently living at. He’s the Alpha & Omega (Beginning and End-Revelations 22:13) and the “same yesterday, today, and forever” [Hebrew 13:8]. We gotta think outside of the box, but we can’t think the way He does because He’s God!!
Remi P Wed, February 23, 2011 11:43:52 AM commented on your link. wrote: “Sal: I am not sure my message got across the way I meant it to be. I am not denying the fact that some researchers are mocked and humiliated by peers when they try to work on a field that rely on religion and science. What I am saying is that this documentary is nothing but propaganda as well mind manipulation. The last part of my first comment means that I wish for someone to treat this subject in an intellectual/social way. This subject has to be treated with the eye of journalism and true investigation on the cause and consequences of this problem. Expelled only works on attacking claims against science portraying it as an anti-religious society. This, in fact, is not true. The claims are not supported by arguments in the film, or often, only certain claims are but not the ones that send a hateful message. I am far from being an anti-religious person and I am a scientific.”
Sal [Sunday, February 27th 2011] I understand Remi..I was trying to reply to your two comments in a quick short of time as I wanted to share my “reply” as soon as I can before there were going to be more comments. I wished FB could have a reply thread (like You tube) to each comment, which one isn’t able to reply back until the the end of all the comments like what happened last week (30 comments by the time I got home). Thus, I had to make this blog for easier response and viewing. I’m actually anti-religious (man made beliefs) as Jesus was…long story that I can share on another blog or you can see one of the links on this topic [see GoodnewsEverybody.com-Religious, World Religions, etc..].
Khayam R Wed, February 23, 2011 11:58:59 AM commented on your link: Hi Sal, rote: “andrew, i guess i have a more simplistic view. i need something to be detected with either my 5 senses or some sense of logic for me to believe in something. although i could see the logical argument for why there is a creator, i could also see the argument why there isn’t. from my perspective, there isn’t enough evidence for me to say for certain whether or not a creator exists, nor do i see any possible way of proving it to anyone.”
Andrew H Wed, February 23, 2011 12:11:26 PM commented on your link. Hi Sal, “but the need for detection of sense and logic is founded ONLY on belief. that is where I think those who endorse the scientific method and those who don’t are equal…”
Sal: God gave us “free will”, which we can choose to “believe” or “not to believe” the “evidence” around us. He’s not going to “make us” believe Him!
Andrew H commented on your link. Wed, February 23, 2011 12:13:34 PM wrote: “which foundation is better? I guess we’ve conceded this. But we must admit that they are equal in that respect; requiring evidence and not. both are mere beliefs; nothing more. what everyone I believe is arguing all the time is that one is better than another. But it isn’t because of evidence I don’t think.”
Khayam R Wed, February 23, 2011 12:13:57 PM commented on your link. wrote: “andrew, without your senses and logic, how could you perceive anything???”
Andrew H Wed, February 23, 2011 12:16:02 PM commented on your link. wrote: “Do you think that you could prove that evidence is a good means to get to truth?”
Khayam R Wed, February 23, 2011 12:16:34 PM commented on your link. wrote: “andrew, i don’t think it’s really about which is better. i think in order to find evidence, you do need some sense of intuition. after that, the evidence should put itself together. it’s a lot like a jig saw puzzle. take some guesses, repeat trial and error, but by the end, the pieces should clue you in on where the next piece goes.”
Sal: One needs to know what they are specifically looking for when “searching” for “evidence”. Do you know what you are looking for?
“But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul.”-Deuteronomy 4
Khayam R commented on your link. Wed, February 23, 2011 12:18:26 PM wrote: “andrew, i guess that would depend on what we’re talking about. i don’t think i could ever find evidence for a creator because i wouldn’t even know where to begin.”
Sal: I would suggest the “beginning” (take a look at the Book of Genesis in the Bible (need “proof” on this “Historical document”?-see prophecies, archaeology-Dead Sea Scrolls, stories of people that has been impacted, etc…)
Andrew H commented on your link. Wed, February 23, 2011 12:22:37 PM wrote: “I’m just criticizing the scientific method I guess. Endorsing it cannot be proven through the scientific method if we’re truly to uphold logic. Its importance must be taken on faith. That being said, what truly separates other matters of faith and the scientific method might not be what we think. But ultimately, I think we’ve agreed that faith is important and some things need to be accepted on BLIND faith (like logic and science). But from the sounds of it, Ben Stein was strawmanning people left and right and saying that religion was contrary to science. I guess I was just trying to bring things back down to equal respects in terms of accepting on faith or not.”
Khayam R Wed, February 23, 2011 12:34:40 PM commented on your link. wrote: “andrew, i don’t see the need for criticizing the scientific method. it allows you to use your faith and intuition when proposing a question, doing the research, and forming a hypothesis. i guess the thing that makes me skeptical of intelligent design is that it only works up to the 3rd step of the scientific method. that’s fine if we’re talking about religion, but the problem is they are trying to say it’s a science.”
Sal: To all the responses, I was trying to find a “better” video than “The Expelled” to “prove” creation and not sure if I could find one except this..
Ultimate Proof of Creation Pt 1 of 6
more is being updated as I’m “trying” reply to each question-comment…